Which Shell for Home Defense # Buck 16 pellet or #1 Buck 24

Tactical, combat, military, law enforcement and home defense use of a Remington 870 shotgun.
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Synchronizor
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Re: Which Shell for Home Defense # Buck 16 pellet or #1 Buc

Post by Synchronizor » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:44 pm

ranbo1213 wrote:its a 12 ga ..any cheap birdshot will do the job in close quarters and hopefully wont rip threw the walls to anyone on the other side in a worst case scenario..be safe.
It doesn't matter if the pellets are from a 12ga or a .410, birdshot is birdshot, and it offers very little penetration in large, thick creatures. It'll make a nasty wound, but a shallow one, which won't stop someone as reliably as multiple hits from pistol bullet-like buckshot pellets. As for penetration, anything that'll penetrate through a human will penetrate through walls; and anything that won't penetrate walls won't penetrate a human.

The best way to be safe in a HD shooting is to end it as quickly as possible by using the most effective ammunition for the situation.

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Re: Which Shell for Home Defense # Buck 16 pellet or #1 Buc

Post by shootall » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:01 pm

FWIW, I have seen buckshot go thru. deer at 30 yards several pellets. Across a room I doubt buckshot will have a problem. I have seen one pellet kill deer at longer yardage. As for the sheetrock and what goes thru. well at the distance most shots would be in a room of average size the shot wad will not be large and I would guess it would pass thru. walls even studs . IMHO when you load bird shot you are thinking the fight will be in a room and stay in the home. How do we know it won't go outside ? If it does will you want buck or bird ? In most cases you might not have time to switch loads , just saying.
As for the load choice, Either for defense as in most cases you won't feel the shot. For practice go with the light kicking load. Also I like shells that are sealed like Winchester period ! Any other shell can be affected by the environment. I hunted ducks in Canada and left a Winchester shell in the bottom of the boat. Came back the next year and it was faded whitish pink and it worked . So practice with cheap loads and save money but the reality is you can used the cheapest gun to launch the best shell because only the shot will effect the target.

I would also add that for SELF DEFENSE use 2 3/4 " shells less chance of short stroking gun .

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Re: Which Shell for Home Defense # Buck 16 pellet or #1 Buc

Post by Synchronizor » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:10 pm

shootall wrote:As for the load choice, Either for defense as in most cases you won't feel the shot. For practice go with the light kicking load.
The drawback with magnum loads has more to do with recovery time vs practical effectiveness than shooting comfort. With a 12ga especially, you'll need time to bring the gun back on target after a shot no matter what you're shooting. Magnum shells can significantly inflate recovery time, especially in a life-or-death situation where you're probably not going to have perfect technique, and against humans, they don't add much practical lethality to make up for their recoil.
shootall wrote:Also I like shells that are sealed like Winchester period ! Any other shell can be affected by the environment.
Remington buckshot shells also have nice sealed crimps, though those use a sealing compound rather than a heat-seal. Really though, for a HD gun doing bedside duty, a weather-sealed crimp is not a necessity.
shootall wrote:I would also add that for SELF DEFENSE use 2 3/4 " shells less chance of short stroking gun .
Shell length doesn't affect this, at least not in an 870. Failures-to-eject or -feed due to short-stroking arise when the fore-end isn't brought back far enough to engage the carrier dog, move the shell latches, or bring the rim of the fired shell back to the ejector. None of these mechanical operations work differently with longer shells.

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Re: Which Shell for Home Defense # Buck 16 pellet or #1 Buc

Post by shootall » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:28 pm

Synchronizor wrote:
shootall wrote:As for the load choice, Either for defense as in most cases you won't feel the shot. For practice go with the light kicking load.
The drawback with magnum loads has more to do with recovery time vs practical effectiveness than shooting comfort. With a 12ga especially, you'll need time to bring the gun back on target after a shot no matter what you're shooting. Magnum shells can significantly inflate recovery time, especially in a life-or-death situation where you're probably not going to have perfect technique, and against humans, they don't add much practical lethality to make up for their recoil.
shootall wrote:Also I like shells that are sealed like Winchester period ! Any other shell can be affected by the environment.
Remington buckshot shells also have nice sealed crimps, though those use a sealing compound rather than a heat-seal. Really though, for a HD gun doing bedside duty, a weather-sealed crimp is not a necessity.
shootall wrote:I would also add that for SELF DEFENSE use 2 3/4 " shells less chance of short stroking gun .
Shell length doesn't affect this, at least not in an 870. Failures-to-eject or -feed due to short-stroking arise when the fore-end isn't brought back far enough to engage the carrier dog, move the shell latches, or bring the rim of the fired shell back to the ejector. None of these mechanical operations work differently with longer shells.


Well I disagree and have seen guns jam when the slide was not fully brought to the rear while using 3 inch shells. If the process was fail safe then there would be no need for the flex tab lifter . But there is the possibility of both a shell getting by when it should not and one not getting by when it should. Readers can surely take sides as they see fit. But what is gained with the longer shell ? first in some guns it means one less shell om board and it in many cases means 100 FPS less velocity although some 3 inch shells are now loaded to a higher velocity but at a reduced payload so what have you gained ?
Also i looked at remington and the crimp still has an opening in the center or the filler must be able to sift thru. the plastic as the box is full of it and you can see it fall out. And yes most HD don't get out side but if better is aval. why not take advantage of it besides i often use shelld for hunting that have been replaced in my HD gun.
We can agree to disagree and other can chose what works for them or at least what they hope works.

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Re: Which Shell for Home Defense # Buck 16 pellet or #1 Buc

Post by Synchronizor » Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:44 am

shootall wrote:Well I disagree and have seen guns jam when the slide was not fully brought to the rear while using 3 inch shells. If the process was fail safe then there would be no need for the flex tab lifter .
Are we talking about the same thing here? The flex-tab fix has nothing to do with ejection, it prevents the gun from locking up if a shell is released from the magazine while the action is closed. And obviously weak or incomplete ejection can result from not bringing the slide all the way back, but that's not because the hulls are longer, it's because the user is short-shucking the gun.

I'm not trying to claim that 3" shells should be used for home defense. In fact, I generally recommend against using magnums for social work, as express or low-recoil loads are already plenty lethal against humans, and are much easier to control. I'm simply saying that an 870 magnum in good working order should be able to eject 3" hulls just as reliably as it does 2.75" hulls.
shootall wrote:Also i looked at remington and the crimp still has an opening in the center or the filler must be able to sift thru. the plastic as the box is full of it and you can see it fall out. And yes most HD don't get out side but if better is aval. why not take advantage of it besides i often use shelld for hunting that have been replaced in my HD gun.
Not sure what Remington shells you looked at, but the Remington Express and Magnum buckshot I've used has tight, well-sealed crimps that have stood up through repeated loading & unloading better than any other brand I've tried.
Remington Sealed Crimps_S1.JPG
Sealed crimps on Remington Express #4 buckshot shells
Remington Sealed Crimps_S1.JPG (48.22 KiB) Viewed 1865 times

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Re: Which Shell for Home Defense # Buck 16 pellet or #1 Buc

Post by shootall » Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:24 pm

I got one 5 round box that had two shells with poor crimps and one with a deformed hull. You have had better luck than I have with them.

the flex tab allows the action to be worked (slammed down on a hard object like the ground) when a shell has worked its way onto the lifter when it should not have.
Yes short stroking , the shorter the shell the less chance of you doing it in a high stress situation. The short shell is more forgiving.

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