HD Quick Access Plan?

Tactical, combat, military, law enforcement and home defense use of a Remington 870 shotgun.
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interrobang
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HD Quick Access Plan?

Post by interrobang » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:23 am

Jus wondering how you guys keep your guns accessible in the event if a home defense situation. Seems to me a safe and lock are slow to open and disengage, but a loaded gun at home without these measures might be bad too. Also without locking it up you run the risk of having it stolen when you aren't there. Thoughts?

stereo joe
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Re: HD Quick Access Plan?

Post by stereo joe » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:01 am

I live in Canada, so I can't store a gun loaded in my residence. I probably would if I could (no kids around) but I make the best of it while conforming to our gun storage laws:

I keep my short barrelled 870 stored with safety off, action open, in a locked gun case under the bed. I also have some #4 Buck in the case so in an emergency, I would yank the key from the chain on my neck, open the case, load my gun and be ready in about 30 seconds or so. I'm going to add a side saddle to my 870 so I can store rounds right on the gun which would speed things up a little bit (as would more practice on my part).

That's about the best I can do with Canada's gun laws the way they are. I have a hunting knife on the nightstand in case I can't get to the gun fast enough but that would really not be my first choice defence tool.

It's not usually advisable to store guns in a case because of the potential for rust so I have to make sure I take my 870 out regularly to oil it.

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Zebra62
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Re: HD Quick Access Plan?

Post by Zebra62 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:35 am

interrobang wrote:Jus wondering how you guys keep your guns accessible in the event if a home defense situation.
The issue of how the HD gun is stored and accessed is a long discussed subject here with no one way being the right way for everyone. Too many variables for that illusive "one size fits all" plan. The best piece of advice I can give is for you to come up with a plan that fits your home and family and practice your plan.
interrobang wrote: Seems to me a safe and lock are slow to open and disengage, but a loaded gun at home without these measures might be bad too. Also without locking it up you run the risk of having it stolen when you aren't there. Thoughts?
Safes and locks are best utilized as long term storage for your HD weapon of choice and they are very slow to open when it comes to a SHTF situation. Imagine this...it's the middle of the night, you and the wife are sound asleep - literally not even on this planet - and all of a sudden some punk assed bitch with a snub nosed 38 decides to kick your door in so he can score some quick cash to make his next fix. You jump out of bed, disoriented, realize someone is in your home and your brain screams WTF!!! Then you jump into action to run the combination on the safe, or fumble with a little key in and an aukwardly designed trigger lock - fumble fumble fumble - and the punk with the wheel gun is getting closer. Chances are he will be on you before you are able to draw down on him, ending your night of peacful slumber for many nights to come. Not a good scenario.

I do have a safe in my home. It is used to store my weapons and spare ammo when I am not at home. When I get home, the safe is opened and my HD shotgun is removed and placed in an easily accessible spot so I can get to it quickly. My children are all very aware of "Dad's gun" and they all know what it is capable of. I have taught them not to fear it, but to respect it. Very important difference.

My Wife and I do both carry hand guns as we go through our daily lives and those weapons are within arms reach 24/7. Hand guns are a powerful accessory to have in your Home Defense plan because you can easily bring them with you as you make your way to the children's room and escort them to your fall back position. Once there, grab up your HD Shotgun, barricade the door and call 5-OH.

My plan goes something like this: Bad guy breaks in the front door. WIfe and I wake up. I grab my Beretta and take a defensive position at the corner of the hall leading to the front of the house. Wife grabs her M&P and heads to the children's rooms and herds them back to the Master bedroom. I close and barricade the door leading to the front of the house, fall back into the Master bedroom and close the door. Wife and teenage daughter push my big dresser against the door and wedge it into position with stategiaclly placed 4x4 posts. I grab up my 870 Tactical and take my defensive position behind Wife's dresser directly in front of the bedroom door. I have an ammo stash in her bottom drawer for my shotgun and spare mags for the Beretta. Wife takes her defensive position behind the bed on the opposite side of the room. She has an ammo stash there for her 20 gauge and spare mags for her M&P. Kids are hiding on our closet burried under a pile of clothing to protect them from stray rounds. Daughter is calling 5-OH. From those positions we ride out the storm and hope the bad guy doesn't try to gain access and we DO NOT GO SEARCHING THROUGH THE HOUSE LOOKING FOR THE BAD GUYS. That is the job of the Police. The only reason to go searching through the house is to find a lost loved one, someone who did not make it to the fall back position. We have a plan for that also and it ain't pretty.

It isn't a perfect plan and it is not by any means supposed to fit anyone but us. If you are married or have a live-in or a room-mate or whatever, get them involved and try to impress upon them the need to defend the family. You may get a sideways look or two, but keep at it. Having the entire family working a defensive plan as a team is easier than you defending your entire family by yourself. Plan your work and work your plan, and by all means practice, practice, practice.

You may notice I didn't say defend your home. Your home and all of your possessions can be replaced. You can't replace your family. Defend your family.

Did I mention to practice?
The REAL definition of GUN CONTROL - The ability to keep your sights on your target.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

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Zebra62
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Re: HD Quick Access Plan?

Post by Zebra62 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:48 am

stereo joe wrote: I keep my short barrelled 870 stored with safety off, action open, in a locked gun case under the bed. I also have some #4 Buck in the case so in an emergency, I would yank the key from the chain on my neck, open the case, load my gun and be ready in about 30 seconds or so.
Wondering about the laws in Canada concerning the storage of weapons in your home, Joe. Is it required to keep them constantly under lock and key or can you have them out in the open when you are home? Is there an issue with the RCMP coming into your home to check your weapons to see if they are loaded or is it an "honor" system? Just curious one that part.

I did live in England for many years when I was in the Air Force and they have some strick gun laws. I never had any weapons in my home personally while I was there, but one of my neighbors did. Wicked strict laws indeed.
The REAL definition of GUN CONTROL - The ability to keep your sights on your target.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

stereo joe
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Re: HD Quick Access Plan?

Post by stereo joe » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:02 pm

Zebra62 wrote:
stereo joe wrote: I keep my short barrelled 870 stored with safety off, action open, in a locked gun case under the bed. I also have some #4 Buck in the case so in an emergency, I would yank the key from the chain on my neck, open the case, load my gun and be ready in about 30 seconds or so.
Wondering about the laws in Canada concerning the storage of weapons in your home, Joe. Is it required to keep them constantly under lock and key or can you have them out in the open when you are home? Is there an issue with the RCMP coming into your home to check your weapons to see if they are loaded or is it an "honor" system? Just curious one that part.

I did live in England for many years when I was in the Air Force and they have some strick gun laws. I never had any weapons in my home personally while I was there, but one of my neighbors did. Wicked strict laws indeed.
It depends on the class of the firearm and whether it is being "stored" or not…

In Canada, there are 3 classes of firearms: non-restricted (most long guns), restricted (handguns and some "scary" looking long guns), and prohibited (small handguns, automatic guns, some "scary" looking long guns). Depending on the class of firearm, it needs to be stored a certain way. The way I described meets Canada's requirements for a non-restricted gun being stored. Theoretically, if I load my gun and keep it handy and in my control, it might be considered in use and not subject to storage laws. But I'm still subject to the rest of our firearms laws which say I can't load a gun in an area where I'm not allowed to discharge firearms. Since I live in a municipality with a "no firearms discharge" bylaw, I would be breaking federal law if I loaded my gun.

In Canadian cases where someone uses a gun in self-defense in their home, its pretty likely he or she would be charged with a bunch of firearms violations, possibly including possession of a loaded firearm (or whatever the actual name of the offence is). Self-defence could be an acceptable legal defence to this charge (and often is) but it would still be up to a judge and/or jury to decide that.

In terms of police inspections, there is a provision in our laws that allows for warrantless home inspection by Firearms Officers (not RCMP, in my understanding) if I own any restricted firearms or they think I have more than 10 guns of any class. They are required to give 24hrs notice for this inspection. Warrantless search and seizure is a violation of a Canadian citizen's rights according to our Charter and at least one Canadian firearms organization (CSSA) has tips for refusing such a search and fighting it legally.

I don't think Canada's gun laws are as strict as England's but we have some pretty terrible stuff in our firearms laws. Our entire Firearms Act starts on the basis that owning firearms is illegal and the legal defence to that crime is having a government issued permit. If I forget to renew the permit or the CFC takes too long to issue my renewal, I become a felon, illegally possessing firearms and subject to criminal indictment (including mandatory minimum sentencing). The law also says that not only can I have my home searched without warrant, I can be required to produce any evidence they ask for, allow them to search my computer, print documents or make photocopies. Legal experts have determined there are at least 28 separate violations of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms in the Firearms Act but most haven't been legally challenged yet.

Sorry. That got long. Don't get me started on our gun laws… I got into this hobby to have some fun and be better prepared for emergencies and ended up getting sucked into the political/legal black hole of our firearms laws. It's a definite sore spot for most Canadian gun owners.

Now, back on topic...

interrobang
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Re: HD Quick Access Plan?

Post by interrobang » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:59 am

Canada sure likes to make things tough. I've resorted to keeping mine as inaccessible as possible until I sort out some tactics. I'm thinking some kind of lockable wall mount will be neat since I don't have to worry about children or anything like that.

DaveC
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Re: HD Quick Access Plan?

Post by DaveC » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:29 pm

No children here, so bear that in mind.

I live in a teensy-tiny 1920s-era "shotgun shack" ("How appropriate to an 870 forum!").

I used to lock the fence gates by my automobile and my side door, but leave the front fence gate open. After last weekend, when a thief tried to steal my wife's bicycle by sneaking through the front gate, I guess I'd better lock than one at night too...

A potential home-invader could be literally on top of me in a heartbeat. For that reason, I have heavy, barred exterior doors over my typical flimsy, crummy exterior doors fitted with a typical "dead-bolt." Neither my wife nor I answer the door if it is some sort of religious missionary, someone we don't know, or someone we are not expecting. If it is somebody like our meter reader, we converse through the barred door until we can see that it is not a charade or costumed criminal.

There are "nightstand" handguns within proximity to the bead. This ain't Canada.
I keep all my firearms locked in a safe (well, OK, more like two safes... ;) when I leave the house, the safe is locked. When I come home, the safe is opened. When I darkness falls, the chamber-empty-with-hammer-down 870 with No.4 buckshot shells loaded in the tube mag and side-saddle goes right where I'd tumble out of bed.

One simply has to do things routinely and do things routinely the same way, everytime. How many folks load the tube magazine with the shotgun shouldered, as one would have to in a so-called "tactical reload" situation? Why have multiple methods for loading? Do it the same way, every time. Good luck to you! Stat safe! :)
Alle Kunst ist umsonst, wenn ein Engel in das Zündloch prunst.

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Synchronizor
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Re: HD Quick Access Plan?

Post by Synchronizor » Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:08 pm

DaveC wrote: keep all my firearms locked in a safe (well, OK, more like two safes... when I leave the house, the safe is locked. When I come home, the safe is opened. When I darkness falls, the chamber-empty-with-hammer-down 870 with No.4 buckshot shells loaded in the tube mag and side-saddle goes right where I'd tumble out of bed.
This is pretty much my approach; guns get locked up when I'm out, and then unlocked when I get home. I use gun locks instead of a safe since I don't have money or space for a safe at the moment, but it's the same idea. I don't want to return home to be greeted by an intruder who armed himself with one of my firearms. It's happened to others who neglected to lock up or disable their guns.

The two firearms I like to keep as handy as possible for home defense are a Glock 31 Gen4, in .357 SIG, and a 12ga Remington 870. Both get unlocked and placed within arm's reach of my bed each night. The Glock is my first response to any bump in the night. It's faster, more maneuverable, and gives me a lot of shots (17+1) so a missed shot is less of a loss. The shotgun is my "artillery". If I have time and warning to deploy it, it's got the power to repel attackers from a fixed, defensible position.

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