Paracode on your stock

Tactical, combat, military, law enforcement and home defense use of a Remington 870 shotgun.
ranbo1213
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Re: Paracode on your stock

Post by ranbo1213 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:32 am

Synchronizor wrote:And anyone who wants to actually aim...
not looking for comfort in a HD situation, just function, and besides this weapon was built for HD/SHTF-bug out incident. that's why we came up with paracord prototype, this FA is not for everyday shooting range. don't really need a cheek wield at maybe 30 feet in a worst case scenario at close range?/ i may also add one to my 870 Police? if i need distance i go to my Mossberg 935. if u cant hit anything w/o a cheek weld ..well??? guess i'm old school...wonder how they hit anything before "Cheek Welds", oh yea, its called being a good shot :)

thx for the input!

be well...

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Synchronizor
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Re: Paracode on your stock

Post by Synchronizor » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:43 am

ranbo1213 wrote:if u cant hit anything w/o a cheek weld ..well??? guess i'm old school...wonder how they hit anything before "Cheek Welds", oh yea, its called being a good shot
I wasn't aware that using your stock and sights properly was a just a newfangled trend. Or are we working with two different definitions for the term "cheek weld"?

The average human male chest is just over one foot wide. That's less than two degrees at 30 feet, or about 1-1.5 inches of lateral muzzle movement for a typical HD shotgun - and that's assuming he's standing square to you. Aiming isn't only useful at the gun range.

I'm not trying to put down the paracord idea, I just don't think it's worth the trade-off unless you can re-work it so that it doesn't get in the way of a proper and consistent sight picture.

ranbo1213
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Re: Paracode on your stock

Post by ranbo1213 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:45 pm

Synchronizor wrote:
ranbo1213 wrote:if u cant hit anything w/o a cheek weld ..well??? guess i'm old school...wonder how they hit anything before "Cheek Welds", oh yea, its called being a good shot
I wasn't aware that using your stock and sights properly was a just a newfangled trend. Or are we working with two different definitions for the term "cheek weld"?

The average human male chest is just over one foot wide. That's less than two degrees at 30 feet, or about 1-1.5 inches of lateral muzzle movement for a typical HD shotgun - and that's assuming he's standing square to you. Aiming isn't only useful at the gun range.

I'm not trying to put down the paracord idea, I just don't think it's worth the trade-off unless you can re-work it so that it doesn't get in the way of a proper and consistent sight picture.
really though with 12 gauge is there really a need for constant sight picture?? in a high risk HD incident, u may not even have time to bring the weapon to check aim, shooting from the hip per se, Every possible scenario is different as u know...my first round is always quality bird shot, then other specific loads i feel will stop the threat. in a house, u don't want anything going through drywall, In the open air incident, bird shot may wing a bad guy and then your next round(s) u go with what comfortable for u to use..

the cord assembly can actually be ran through 1 of the elastic shotshell slots and u wouldnt even notice it on the side of the stock, which i have actually done, but i put it on the outside of the elastic for display purpose/pix only..although it has not been tested at the range, the cord placement is so minute it has no effect on aiming, and my cheek rest on top/near the cord with no major impact or discomfort, and where i placed it gives me an automatic area where to line up my cheek..(before/after/on top the cord per user preference). once again this 870 is built for HD, but mostly SHTF bug out use, cord is installed as an added safety feature, IE, use for emergency paracord/3 extra shotshells, or anything else i can think to add in the future that will not inhibit use there of and/or could be of use if needed, like adding batteries to my AR Grip, etc..just another possible bug out idea, like cutting out the end of a synthetic 870 stock and using the hollow area for essential storage of survival gear..

just think u could hold the 870 vertically, w/ unloaded chamber, with a strap, and install a light tackle fishing rod in one of the empty slots .."protected fishing and/or once the fish is hooked u just shoot the fair and some of his buddies he's schooling with..lol!

thx again for your input.

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Synchronizor
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Re: Paracode on your stock

Post by Synchronizor » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:03 pm

ranbo1213 wrote:really though with 12 gauge is there really a need for constant sight picture?? in a high risk HD incident, u may not even have time to bring the weapon to check aim, shooting from the hip per se,
Shooting "from the hip" is difficult enough when you're relaxed at the range, you'll have trouble hitting the broad side of a barn when you're stressed-out and pumped up on adrenaline. Remember, a human's vitals are about a foot wide, and buckshot patterns at indoor ranges are usually even smaller (my HD buckshot shoots a 6" pattern at 7 yards), so being off by just a degree or two can turn a perfect center hit into an ineffective graze or a complete miss. If you can't aim, you might as well be shooting a cap gun.

That's why a consistent cheek weld is important. It's an element of a conditioned shooting stance that places your eye at the same location each time so that you can place your shots effectively without having to deliberately and consciously line up the sights. It's not a type of shooting that'll get you 1-inch groups at the rifle range, but it'll do the job for HD. With practice, shouldering the shotgun, placing your eye, and seeing the point of impact becomes muscle memory, something that you can quickly and reliably accomplish even while your conscious mind is occupied with the stress of a defensive shooting.
ranbo1213 wrote:Every possible scenario is different as u know...my first round is always quality bird shot, then other specific loads i feel will stop the threat. in a house, u don't want anything going through drywall, In the open air incident, bird shot may wing a bad guy and then your next round(s) u go with what comfortable for u to use..
If you know birdshot won't reliably stop a human, why use it for self-defense? If you're shooting at a home intruder with a 12ga, you're employing lethal force, no matter what you're shooting. In that event, why pull your punches? Yeah, penetration through walls can be a concern, but anything that won't go through drywall won't go through a human either, so you're just wasting your time until you get to the effective stuff anyway. And by extending the encounter, you're not only giving the other party a tactical advantage, you're increasing the chances of collateral damage by increasing the amount of gunfire exchanged.


Anyway, more on-topic, it sounds like your paracord shell loop idea is really more intended for survival/bug-out applications, not so much home defense. Maybe the concept would be more practical in the form of an ammo belt or shell sling. It wouldn't get in the way of aiming and shooting as much, it would hold more shells and contain more paracord, and it would be easier to take off for HD duty & reattach in other situations where it would be needed.
Image
If you can figure out how to make one of these out of paracord, I'd be very interested.

ranbo1213
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Re: Paracode on your stock

Post by ranbo1213 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:32 pm

Synchronizor wrote:
ranbo1213 wrote:really though with 12 gauge is there really a need for constant sight picture?? in a high risk HD incident, u may not even have time to bring the weapon to check aim, shooting from the hip per se,
Shooting "from the hip" is difficult enough when you're relaxed at the range, you'll have trouble hitting the broad side of a barn when you're stressed-out and pumped up on adrenaline. Remember, a human's vitals are about a foot wide, and buckshot patterns at indoor ranges are usually even smaller (my HD buckshot shoots a 6" pattern at 7 yards), so being off by just a degree or two can turn a perfect center hit into an ineffective graze or a complete miss. If you can't aim, you might as well be shooting a cap gun.

That's why a consistent cheek weld is important. It's an element of a conditioned shooting stance that places your eye at the same location each time so that you can place your shots effectively without having to deliberately and consciously line up the sights. It's not a type of shooting that'll get you 1-inch groups at the rifle range, but it'll do the job for HD. With practice, shouldering the shotgun, placing your eye, and seeing the point of impact becomes muscle memory, something that you can quickly and reliably accomplish even while your conscious mind is occupied with the stress of a defensive shooting.
ranbo1213 wrote:Every possible scenario is different as u know...my first round is always quality bird shot, then other specific loads i feel will stop the threat. in a house, u don't want anything going through drywall, In the open air incident, bird shot may wing a bad guy and then your next round(s) u go with what comfortable for u to use..
If you know birdshot won't reliably stop a human, why use it for self-defense? If you're shooting at a home intruder with a 12ga, you're employing lethal force, no matter what you're shooting. In that event, why pull your punches? Yeah, penetration through walls can be a concern, but anything that won't go through drywall won't go through a human either, so you're just wasting your time until you get to the effective stuff anyway. And by extending the encounter, you're not only giving the other party a tactical advantage, you're increasing the chances of collateral damage by increasing the amount of gunfire exchanged.


Anyway, more on-topic, it sounds like your paracord shell loop idea is really more intended for survival/bug-out applications, not so much home defense. Maybe the concept would be more practical in the form of an ammo belt or shell sling. It wouldn't get in the way of aiming and shooting as much, it would hold more shells and contain more paracord, and it would be easier to take off for HD duty & reattach in other situations where it would be needed.
Image
If you can figure out how to make one of these out of paracord, I'd be very interested.
although i prefer a BDS Single Point application, a full shotshell paracord sling is already in the works, takes a lot of time/ expense of labor though because a full length sling/shotshell holders all have to be right on tight...

first i would not want to be hit anywhere with birdshot, definitely not at center mass at close range...AND the millisecond decision to make a proper shot placement also takes into account what is beyond the shot pellet/bullet..like a family/neighbor, etc..

back to point of aim, getting off tangent/example, say u draw a hand gun, your not always going to go to eye level to shoot, let the perp see u have a weapon, etc, u will aim from strong side near chest/possibly hand extended out to move perp/objects, again different scenarios,,, we could go on all year about Murphy's Law?..most HD encounters happen within 7 meters...i have practiced, i can still engage my target until a reasonable aim can be achieved if need be..to each his own, hopefully u and i will never have to encounter..

FYI" my thread was to show the paracord project, not point-counter point on a trillion different scenarios of possible real life situations.

be well patriot..thx again for your insight.

shootall
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Re: Paracode on your stock

Post by shootall » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:46 pm

Aim a rifle point a shotgun :roll: but a good cheek weld helps anchor the eye ;)

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Re: Paracode on your stock

Post by shootall » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:47 pm

BTW i'll skip adding anything to my gun other than a sling (some now are para cord) or a light.

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