870 Wingmaster Date???

General discussion about Remington 870 shotgun.
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kev4id
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870 Wingmaster Date???

Post by kev4id » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:47 pm

Need a little help from the forum. I just acquired an 870 Wingmaster in 16 GA. I was trying to determine the date of manufacture using the Remington online guide. I may have misinterpreted the guide but was unable to date the three number date mark on the barrel, X X Y. The serial number is 148426W if this helps. Thanks!
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DANNYII
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Re: 870 Wingmaster Date???

Post by DANNYII » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:37 pm

Looks like "X X X" to me.

If so, that would be December, 1951. Great early Wingmaster!

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John A.
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Re: 870 Wingmaster Date???

Post by John A. » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:05 am

I truly love my 16 gauge shotguns and seeing this makes me truly envious.

My first shotgun was a Stevens model 94 in 16 gauge. My Dad gave it to me when I was 13 years old. Needless to say, it was the terror of the mountains for a wide range of animals ranging from squirrels, grouse, rabbit and turkeys. That old gun and I spent a lot of time together on cool foggy mornings for sure.

My other is an old pre-68 Montgomery Wards pump (made by Noble shotguns). I paid a 100 dollar bill for it. It was dirty, the barrel had so much plastic fouling in it that I had to use a drill with a cleaning rod chucked in it to clean it up. But once it was, has been worth every penny that I paid for it.

If you can't kill it with a 16 gauge, you're not going to do any better with a 12 gauge.

Ammo availability is not as good as many others, and prices are a little higher than many others too. That's why I bought a Lee Load-All shell reloader so I can reload my own. It saves a ton of money.

But that old stevens, love or money wouldn't buy that gun from me.
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you have ignorant gun laws.
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kev4id
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Re: 870 Wingmaster Date???

Post by kev4id » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:54 am

Thanks DANNYII. Upon further magnification the marks do appear to be XXX. The shotgun is in about 85-90% condition, found it tucked away with some other old guns at a local gun show. Picked it up for $275.00. I think it was a pretty good deal!

John A. I have been looking for a 16 GA pump for awhile and the Rem. 870 seems to be my best bet for partridge hunting. I have always favored an older model shotgun and am thrilled I found this. I'm not sure exactly why 16GA has fallen out of popularity as compared to a 12 or 20 GA.

Thanks for the replies guys!

DANNYII
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Re: 870 Wingmaster Date???

Post by DANNYII » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:32 pm

Great find, indeed!

I was at a big gun show on Saturday and the least expensive used plain Jane 870 I saw was $375. When you can buy a new one for $289-325, uh...why?.

I saw two used Wingmasters. The least expensive was $550.

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John A.
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Re: 870 Wingmaster Date???

Post by John A. » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:53 pm

kev4id wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:54 am
Thanks DANNYII. Upon further magnification the marks do appear to be XXX. The shotgun is in about 85-90% condition, found it tucked away with some other old guns at a local gun show. Picked it up for $275.00. I think it was a pretty good deal!

John A. I have been looking for a 16 GA pump for awhile and the Rem. 870 seems to be my best bet for partridge hunting. I have always favored an older model shotgun and am thrilled I found this. I'm not sure exactly why 16GA has fallen out of popularity as compared to a 12 or 20 GA.

Thanks for the replies guys!
Well, that story goes way back to when they were standardizing for skeet shooting.

The 16 gauge was left out.

So, load development didn't advance like 12 and 20 gauge did. And to be honest, looking at the 3" 20 gauge loads and the ligher 12 gauge loads, often overlapped the 16, so after a while, they were mostly phased out and obsolete.

I hate to use the word obsolete, but reality is, that's the word that best describes it. Ammo is made on limited runs, and while there are some expensive shotguns being imported from Europe, there are not any still being made by US manufacturers that I know of.

There are still a lot of us guys who take their 16's out every year and do just as well in the field as those standing beside us with other guns.

Personally, I really like the 16 gauge. Anything from 7/8 up to 1-1/4 oz does well. I tend to prefer 1-1/8 and 1-1/4" payloads, but like I said earlier, if you can't kill it with a 16 gauge, you're not really going to do any better with a 12 gauge unless you get up into the 12 gauge 3-1/2 magnums with 1-3/4 oz goose loads.

So my friend, enjoy your 16 gauge, pattern it with a bunch of different shot and brands of shells and see what it likes the best. Then you'll enjoy many days out in the field.

You may like this if you haven't already seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgnTbVA5_4E
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you have ignorant gun laws.
-John A.

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John A.
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Re: 870 Wingmaster Date???

Post by John A. » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:37 pm

I read this article earlier today. You may enjoy it too.

https://gundigest.com/more/classic-guns ... t-happened
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you have ignorant gun laws.
-John A.

hproteron
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Re: 870 Wingmaster Date???

Post by hproteron » Tue May 22, 2018 5:24 pm

I'd love to pick up a 16-gauge 870, and stupidly passed on the NIB one on an auction site a few weeks ago because the starting bid was over $1000. That one looked like it possibly came from the 2000-2010 era, and must have been one of the last ones Remington produced. (It had that "J" on the safety button to lock it with an implement. Big turn off.) I know the gauge is "obsolete," but after hunting my 12-gauges for the last 30 years, It's time to go with a lighter gun. Yes, I have a 20-ga, but I have always wanted a 16, also just to be different.

I hadn't shopped for guns or paid attention to availability, so was surprised to learn that they aren't made now by Remington. Not only that, but there are very few used ones around on the auction sites.

Some of you forum participants probably know more about this, so my question is why so few used 870 16-gauges? There are lots of Winchester Model 12s in 16 gauge. But I don't like the gun as much as the 870, of which I own four.

By the way, was the 870 16-gauge lighter? Was it just a 12-gauge with a smaller bore chamber and barrel?

I read the article and watched the video on the demise of the 16-gauge posted earlier. Thanks to the posters for those. Obsolete or not, I still want one.

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Synchronizor
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Re: 870 Wingmaster Date???

Post by Synchronizor » Mon May 28, 2018 6:40 am

hproteron wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:24 pm
By the way, was the 870 16-gauge lighter? Was it just a 12-gauge with a smaller bore chamber and barrel?
16ga 870s are built on the same large-frame receivers as 12ga 870s, so there's not a lot of difference. Originally, according to Remington's published specs, the 16ga models were 6 3/4 pounds compared to the 7 pounds of equivalent 12ga 870s. That's a minor difference, though probably noticeable, given that the weight savings are largely in the barrel.

When Remington re-introduced the 16ga 870 in the 2000s, it did not go well. The new 16ga guns were actually about a quarter-pound heavier than the 12ga models, because someone had the bright idea to simply take 12ga barrel profiles, and drill a 16ga hole down the middle.

I like the 16ga, and a nice 16ga side-by-side is on my wish list. There are also 16ga pumps that are properly scaled-down compared to equivalent 12ga models. But for the 870, I don't think the 16ga makes much sense unless you just want one for the novelty. Availability aside, 12ga shells will do everything the 16ga can, as good or better. And even if you're comparing the earlier 16ga 870s that were slightly lighter, a 12ga with a shorter barrel can be equally light, and more maneuverable to boot thanks to the decreased length.

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