Pump-Action Shotguns in Shootouts (North Hollywood shootout and 1986 FBI Miami shootout)

Posted on July 13, 2010

There are a lot of talks about the effectiveness of shotguns. But we need to understand the role of the shotguns and what they can and can’t do.

Let’s see information about the shootouts where shotguns were used: North Hollywood shootout and 1986 FBI Miami shootout.

Brief description of the North Hollywood shootout (from Wikipedia):

The North Hollywood shootout was an armed confrontation between two heavily armed bank robbers and officers of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) in the North Hollywood district of Los Angeles on February 28, 1997.

Local patrol officers at the time were typically armed with 9 mm or .38 Special pistols on their person, with some having a 12-gauge shotgun available in their cars. Phillips and Matasareanu carried fully automatic rifles, with ammunition capable of penetrating police body armor, and wore military grade body armor of their own.

The patrol officers were armed with standard Beretta 92-type 9-mm pistols and .38-caliber revolvers, and some also carried 12-gauge pump-action shotguns, but the body armor worn by Phillips and Matasareanu was strong enough to resist penetration.

The robbers were protected by body armor which could not be penetrated by the officers’ handgun and shotgun ammunition.

The ineffectiveness of the pistol rounds and shotgun pellets in penetrating the robbers’ body armor led to a trend in the United States toward arming selected police patrol officers with semi-automatic 5.56 mm AR-15 type rifles.

As you can see from the video, policeman used his 12 gauge shotgun from the distance of about 50 yards (he was behind the kiosk). Policeman saw that shotgun pellets hit the robber but had no effect. Robber returned fire.

So it is not a very good idea to use a shotgun (birdshot and buckshot) against the enemy with body armor. Especially on a long distance (20-50 yards). Slugs are more effective on such distances. But remember that shotgun is a Close Quarters Battle weapon. Shotgun is one of the most effective short range weapons and it is extremely good for a home defense use.

Brief description of the 1986 FBI Miami shootout (from Wikipedia):

The FBI Miami shootout was a gun battle that occurred on 11 April 1986 in Miami, Florida between eight Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) agents and two serial bank robbers.

The incident is infamous in FBI history and is well-studied in law enforcement circles. Despite outnumbering the suspects 4 to 1, the agents found themselves pinned down by rifle fire and unable to respond effectively. Although both Matix and Platt were hit multiple times during the firefight, Platt fought on regardless and continued to injure and kill the officers. This incident led to the introduction of more powerful handguns in many police departments around the country.

Unfortunately, FBI agents didn’t have enough weapons. Only two of the FBI vehicles contained shotguns. Also, it turns out that shotgun pellets are not very effective against enemy inside the car. Another important thing to know is that it was difficult for the FBI agent to reload his shotgun able to use only one arm.

Do you know any other shootouts where shotguns were used? Please leave a comment.

IPSC Shotgun Competition, Kiev, Ukraine, 20 February 2010

Posted on February 22, 2010

Wow, that was great! I love to participate in competitions because you can test your skills and receive real experience. This was my 3rd competition and this time I was 10th out of 19 shooters, I am very happy with this result and will work to improve it.

You can see some videos here: IPSC Competition Video

The tactical shotgun in urban operations

Posted on January 29, 2010

Interesting article by Ryan J. Morgan about use of tactical shotguns during Operation Iraqi Freedom: The tactical shotgun in urban operations

Candewman (CDM) Clamps – Story of Creation

Posted on January 23, 2010

Scott Dew, owner of the CDM Gear shared the very interesting story of creation of his unique clamps:

So, I started making clamps about 4 years ago but I actually started out doing a lot of custom, one-off stuff for people. I was also designing an adapter like the Mesa Tactical stock adapter about the same time they did. This all started with the FN TPS shotgun. You may know that it has a stock that adapts an AR15 stock and pistol grip to the shotgun. I liked the look and started developing my own.

Mine was a little more complex and had a built in scope rail. It was going to be investment cast and then machined. It was really nice and better than anything on the market. I didn’t make it because Knoxx was coming out with a recoil reducing stock and I felt that it would revolutionize the stock adapter industry.

I didn’t want to sink a lot of money into something that was going to be outdated so I stopped development. Looking back, I should have continued ahead with my plans…and I still might.

In the meantime I was still making clamps but they looked like everyone elses out there. I like simplified form and after looking at the clamp assembly with the scope ring and the rail and everything I felt there was a better way. It litterally came to me in my sleep and I got up about 3 in the morning and started drawing the cad work for the MOD-C, which stands for Multi Optional Design Clamp. I’ve included a .jpg so you can get an idea of where the idea came from.

I also worked on the patent, which is still in process. I have a provisional patent that will be converted to a regular patent application in February. I will be doing the actual patent work as well.

The clamps can interchange with other components as well, such as rails and the Sling Swivel dock. The sling swivel dock is made out of steel, instead of aluminum. I believe the steel to be a better way to go than aluminum for long term durability.

Since the sling swivel dock needed a hole for the sling swivel, I lined it up with the bolt hole for the clamp. I followed through with the rails putting an access hole in the same place for the clamp.

With other clamps you need to take the rail off to take the clamp apart. You don’t need to do that with mine. I am the only maker that does this. I also wanted to have the light or laser as close to the shotgun as possible. I don’t believe there is another railed clamp out there that holds the light as close to the shotgun as mine does. It is also the lightest of it’s kind on the market.

Scott, thank you very much for sharing this story with me and readers of the Rem870 blog!

More information about CDM Clamps: http://www.candewman.com/

4000 Visitors in December 2009

Posted on January 3, 2010

Happy New Year to all Rem870.com Blog Readers! This blog had more than 4000 readers in December, 2009.

Check often, a lot of interesting articles coming soon…

Remington 870 Shotgun Photo

Posted on October 7, 2009

Nice Remington 870 photo from a shooting range:

We should have shotguns for this kind of deal

Posted on September 4, 2009

Today, I’ve seen a funny signature of the user VFR_STPETE on the http://www.shotgunworld.com forum in Home Defense / Tactical Shotguns section. It made me smile.

Jules: We should have shotguns for this kind of deal.
Vincent: How many up there?
Jules: Three or four.
Vincent: That’s countin’ our guy?
Jules: Not sure.
Vincent: So that means there could be up to five guys up there?
Jules: It’s possible.
Vincent: We should have fuckin’ shotguns.

Shotgun Acronyms/Abbreviations

Posted on August 25, 2009

Here are some of the commonly used shotgun abbreviations:

LOP – Length Of Pull, is the distance between the front face of the trigger and end of the butt plate or butt pad.
CQB – Close Quarter Battle
CQC – Close Quarter Combat
SD – Self Defense
Cyl. – Cylinder
IMP CYL – Improved Cylinder
VCS – Vang Comp Systems, http://www.vangcomp.com

Do you know any other abbreviations? Please leave them in comments.

Dimples in Magazine Tube of Remington 870

Posted on August 23, 2009

I have received answer about dimples in magazine tube from the first hands, directly from the Remington:

“The dimples in the magazine tube is to keep the new style retainer in place. If the
dimples are removed, the retainer would not stay in place. We do not recommend these
dimples to be removed. This style was introduced in the late 80’s.”

Thanks to the Remington for this information.

But if you want to install magazine extension you still need to drill them out first.

A Little More Information About Dimples in Magzine Tube

Posted on August 14, 2009

Dimples were not in magazine tube forever, Remington started to punch them into magazine since 1990 or little later. Their purpose is to stop owner from using a magazine extensions. There are no dimples in Police version of Remington 870 (standard Remington 870 Express magazine capaciy is 4+1, or the one with factory magazine extension is 6+1, but it has dimples too)

Some owners say that drilling them out leads to rusting of your magazine tube so you may find it useful to cold blue it.

UPDATE: Dimples in Magazine Tube of Remington 870

Rem870.com – A Blog About The Best Pump Shotgun – Remington 870

Posted on July 30, 2009

I am proud owner of the Remington 870 shotgun and decided to start a blog about my hobby. In this blog I want to share my experience, useful information and review different Remington 870 accessories and upgrades.

There are many versions of the Remington 870 shotguns: combos, marine, deergun, tactical etc. At the moment I own a Remintong 870 Express.
I have started to build a tactical/home defense sthotgun and already have a lot of interesting tips and advices on how to build a tactical shotgun. Also, I want to find people which share my hobby and like shooting, remington 870 or other pump or semi-automatic shotguns. There are 10 000 000 of Remington 870 shotguns produced (On April 13, 2009 the ten millionth Model 870 was produced) since the 1950 so I have really good chances to find other owners of the Rem 870 on the internet.

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